Lincolnite

No new taxes!

All talk of an arena needs to be shelved until we fix the budget deficit.

Are there any savings to be had by putting the arena where the Hy-Vee would go?  ‘Cuz that would totally rock.

Also, if we had to, I would be less opposed to the sales tax increase, but I’m guessing it’s part psychological (I don’t have a thousand dollars right now, but I do have an extra two cents for a box of cereal) and partly because up until a couple of weeks ago I thought the city sales tax was already 7.5%.

I’m OK with $1,000 per Lincolnite, provided the arena seats 250,000 people and we can attend all events free for life.

This arena plan needs to be shelved. There’s no evidence that if we build it, acts will come. You’re telling me that a lot more “names” will come here with a new, larger, arena, with the Qwest center (one of the top 5 or so drawing centers in the US) only 50 miles away? “Yes, let’s play Lincoln and ignore the bigger venue and bigger population down the road, because they have a new arena.” No way.

I agree that Pershing is a dump. No one seems to like the Bob, either. Perhaps a partnership of sorts that is similar to what the city and UNL have with Haymarket park would work. But without Dear Ol’ Nebraska U being involved, the economics just don’t work. This is pie-in-the-sky at its finest (like the light rail system between LNK and OMA).

Oh yeah, and like the others above me have pointed out—CAN WE SOLVE THE CURRENT BUDGET CRISIS before we try to come up with ways to spend another 100 million or so? Thanks. For that money, think of how many new fire trucks we could have.

FYI, Fletch, lately the talk has been of building an arena approximately the same size as the Qwest (~18,000). Thus, Omaha’s arena wouldn’t necessarily have a size advantage. Also, it’s not $100 million. It’s $235 million.

I wouldn’t go too far with the light rail comparison if I were you. Whereas the light rail idea is almost certainly unachievable for at least a couple decades, some sort of arena and convention center are definitely doable today. I think it’s not unreasonable to say that most Lincolnites wouldn’t mind having a new arena to show off. The disagreement isn’t “should we do it or not” as it is with the light rail; the disagreement is over how we should do it. Bridging the gap between the idealists (“I’ll sell my firstborn to get this thing built!”) and the pessimists (“Touch my taxes and I’ll kick your ass!”) won’t be easy, but I think it can be done.

If arenas actually did as well as everyone promised, developers would be lining up to build them. But they don’t. The private beneficiaries claim these things eventually pay for themselves, but they know better than that. They bleed cities dry with deals rigged to benefit the private investors at the taxpayers’ expense.

I’d fall into the “Touch my taxes and I’ll kick your ass!” category not so much because I’m in the tax-whiner category, but I just don’t believe public money should be spent on things like arenas. Let a group of developers take the risk and reap the benefits, rather than setting up a deal where the city takes the risk and eats the losses while the developers reap the benefits.

Hey Mr. W,
I was thinking it was a quarter billion, but then I thought it couldn’t be right. LOL

Maybe my point wasn’t clear. I’d like to have a fancy new arena. If we could have a decent plan to pay for it. It seems, however, that as we struggle to pay our existing city bills, we have to continue to differentiate WANTS from NEEDS. If the city was swimming in excess cash, I’d say go for it.

The truth remains—are there really enough events to keep the Qwest, the Mid-American Center, the old Civic, the Bob, and a new Lincoln arena all active?  I don’t think we’d start on a level playing field, and I don’t think we can afford a quarter-billion dollar gamble (we have that with the Antelope Valley project already). Think of it this way, in total tax dollars (and I realize these are all different things and different entities) but we would be tackling, all at once, $250M in schools, at least as much on the Antelope Valley, and as much on an Arena. That’s 3/4 of a billion bones, (visually, that’s $750,000,000) all while we can’t pay the current bills or figure out how to pave a road at 50th and O Street. We aren’t adding to the tax base fast enough to do all that stuff, and while I could certainly cover my $1,000 share, not every can or will or wants to.

I didn’t mean to jab the light-rail system. My point was, as it was announced, much like nuking Ashland to build a lake, it was not a practical or feasible approach to use as a means to a worthy goal.

I must be a thread killer—this is the third thread in 10 days that I posted at that never had another reply. Perhaps I should go back to lurking…

Nope, sorry. Once you de-lurk, you aren’t allowed to go back.

Besides, it’s nice to have an official thread-killer around. It saves the rest of us from having to do it 😊

The thread’s not dead!

Three completely different thoughts are going through my head…

1) I agree that a fancy new arena is a WANT, not a need and Lincoln has a laundry list of NEEDS that should be taken care of first.

2) I wonder if HALF of that amount (say 100 million) would be enough to do a remodel of Pershing or Devaney that brings the same level of “excitement” as a new arena?

3) I understand that this comment is “missing the point,” that it is a tax vs. no tax or good government vs. bad government issue at its heart, BUT- Has .5% sales tax ever stopped anyone from buying something they wanted? Does anyone really consider it when making a purchase? Would you buy that new car at 6% sales tax, but not 6.5%? Or go to Crete to buy it at 2% less sales tax (for example)? I’m not judging, I’m asking. I’ve never once in my life considered the sales tax on an item when considering where or whether to buy an item. I wondered if other people DO consider it.

I meant FOUR thoughts…

4) What about this math:

25 Million for sale of Pershing?

100 Million from the University for basketball/volleyball usage rights for the lifetime of the arena (and maybe some profit sharing options to spur their involvement in bringing acts to town?)

150 Million in special one-time municipal bonds offered for sale to area businesses with the stipulation of attaching a conference/convention center to the arena.

275 Million, just like that. No sweat.

THEN start talking to the city about what they can contribute.

Someone call me when they start scheduling events.

😉

I kind of like the way CP thinks. Here’s the kicker—if this thing was a sure money-maker, we could get John Q to just build the thing. The thing that’s hard to wrap around here is that the Qwest is by many measures one of the hottest venues in the US, and they can’t pay Omaha or MECA or whoever the money back that was pledged in the beginning. As much as it’s a fun need, i’m afraid it’s a 265 million boondoggle. Aside from the fact Pershing is ugly, dated, and has that 80’s color scheme, how often is it really sold out? Is there really demand here for 15,000 seats?

CP, I like that you’re suggesting something different. I wish the 2015 Vision Group could break out of its tunnel vision and consider these sorts of ideas.

That said, I’m not crazy about the idea of remodeling Pershing. (The Bob ... maybe, but the location is a liability.) Pershing was built for a different era, and I’m afraid that remodeling it to a state that would work with today’s events just isn’t possible. Then again, I’m no architect, so what do I know?

In any event, I would much rather see Lincoln take on a smaller, kick-ass arena than participate in the “mine is bigger than yours” battle of oneupmanship.

I agree with Fletch. If it were a sure money-maker, John Q would build it.

On the other hand, swimming pools, roads, parks, rec centers… none of these are money makers, but government provides them to raise the quality of life. 265 million could raise the quality of life for a LOT of people in a LOT of ways other than a new arena.

I find myself on a road every day, a park 25 times a year, but I only get the chance to see a show once or twice a year. I’m willing to drive to Omaha for that.

I vote “no new arena”. (Not now anyway.)

Don’t forget that Qwest isn’t solvent.  They’re asking Omaha to bail them out,

I like numbered lists too!

1. I can’t afford concert tickets anymore, in Omaha or Lincoln, so I don’t care much.

2. I think a convention center would be of more use (economically, anyway) than a concert venue. But I have absolutely nothing to base that on.

People coming in for a concert come in for the concert, they maybe stay the night and have a couple of meals. A multi day conference, on the other hand, brings people in for several days- I would wager they spend a lot more money.

3. If I could afford concert tickets, I wouldn’t mind driving to Omaha.

4. I would agree to pay $1000 for a light rail. Plus a sales tax increase.